Mark left a very interesting comment on the post about the book – Fishing in Utopia about his life in Sweden and UK that I think deserves a post of its own to be honest.
have to be honest, I havent read this book.
Fishing doesn’t really interest me, and if I had to force myself to read such a book, it would be a toss up between fish recipes of Rick Stein …. or fly fishing by J R Hartley LOL.
But back when I was 14, I left the UK for a year or 2 to stay with my dad in Stockholm and work in a warehouse for Indiska (I had already left school at 13 in the UK …. its a long story) but this must have been around 1989 to 90 /91.
I remember the times were defiantly different back then.
And the social scene was very surreal and very distant.
In 91 I moved back to the UK to return to education, and remember the glee I felt at returning home. And while life was a lot tougher in the UK for me in terms of social problems (rough nightlife / chavs / lack of middle class etc) and paychecks ….. I was still very glad to be back in the sociable UK.
However by 94, it had all got to much for me in the UK.
I think John major was prime-minister at the time, and the poll tax and other issues had come into effect on a very poor / financial recession period. SO I came back to Stockholm to stay at my dads for a few weeks holiday (and trying to scrounge some cash to be on my merry way to hopefully pick grapes in portugal or some other young dream I had back then). Well it never happened and I eventually met my wife over here and have been here since.
When I first came here in Oct. 94 I populously tried to stay away from Expats, as I didnt want to hear the baggage stories …. As there was way too many. But over the years the I have come to realize that many expats over here (that are not geezers at the local pub) are not always knot tied handkerchief Alf Garnett’s … A few expats I have met, are similar to myself in the sense that they left looking for a more relaxed, less aggressive middle class citizen.
Its a very delicate balance.
Utopia in a sense is to imagine that Sweden is your summer house.
And if you have enough cash to be able to travel well and still be able to retreat back to Sweden for the gaps, then that for me I would think is the happy medium.
Sweden is defiantly changing at a fast pace at present.
And I am not sure if I will be so happy here say in 5 years as the changes that we are seeing are a natural progression …. But, and this is a big “BUT” the changes we are starting to see appear to be a far less “liberal Sweden” and if Sweden does become a more hardlined while continuing to recruit a huge amount of outside help which is needed for the economy and continuing to stay on track forcing nationalistic and cultural assimilation then I am sure I will have to look elsewhere to live.
Sweden is defiantly at a cross roads in terms of future direction.
And my biggest fear is that we may see a very skewed social reality very soon. The funny thing is if you took the UK and compared it to Sweden in its present state you couldn’t find a more extreme comparison in Europe.
A very interesting post from Mark.
I was having a similar discussion the other day with someone. About the pluses and minuses of living in Sweden compared with the UK. I hate to say it but I grimace every time I go back to the UK. So much crime, corrupt politics, litter and dogshit all over the streets, a fragmented society. Sweden is no Utopia but right now its better in so many ways however I think Mark is right in that its only a matter of time before Sweden could go the way of other countries.
If you read the Local and/or the local free rag that comes out then there are some horrendous things going on in Sweden that do not get much of an airing in the national press.
I agree with Mark about the expat thing. I get quite frustrated with some of them who make very little effort to integrate with Swedish society.
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I think one should be careful about making value judgements about other people. The knotted-handkerchief expat may be found propping up the bar of the local English or Irish pub and may be stubbornly mono-lingual (though I’ve met a few long-term resident Brits who claim to have learned Swedish but whose vocabulary and grammar barely exceed those of a toddler). However, the knotted-handkerchief bloke is more often than not law abiding, paying taxes and bringing up a family. Even if he prefers his own narrow world, his children (who are badly needed by an ageing Sweden) will grow up speaking Swedish and be blended in society. As long as an immigrant contributes to society and causes no problems to the rest of us then we all should mind our own business. Your correspondent is honest and pragmatic in that he speaks of the advantages of mobility in terms of finding the country which best suits his tastes at a given time. However, many (and quite conceivably the majority of those who are fathers) of “non-integrating” expats are likely to be in it for the long haul. They not be the best of “integrators” but will be around to contribute to the solutions to the problems Sweden faces, not least by doing the hardest task of all: being decent parents to the next members of the next generation.
I actually read last week that Sweden accepts between 90-100,000 immigrants every year.
I think cultural assimilation isn’t such a bad thing. I believe you should know your heritage but you should always integrate and accept the ways and traditions in Sweden.
I think in the UK there are too people who want it to be their way. Shia law, honor killings, religion and all that bollocks.
I do sometimes complain and moan about the way Swedish people are, the way certain things work here but I would rather it be like that and have the life I do than it become more like the UK or other countries.
Hi Jamie. My comment was specifically about the English.
I just wrote something about this topic on my blog:
http://eskilstoona.blogspot.com/2009/07/engelsman-i-sverige.html.
In general, I think all of us have to look behind the stereotypes. We all integrate in ways which suit us. In my case, I have some Swedish friends, have been known to sing små grodorna and enjoy reading about modern Swedish history. Shane goes to the footy and joins political parties etc. I’m sure you do whatever matches your interests .
The stereotypical monolingual English ex-pat who only goes the British/Irish pub has similarly chosen to do none of the things we call integration. However, he can still end up contributing more than any of us to Sweden and at the very least he’s usually benign and will disappear after a generation. We should be careful about judging him. He’s made his choices just as we’ve made ours.
The situation changes drastically when discussing other types of immigration, but this is another, and altogether more complicated, topic.
BTW, I enjoyed your blog btw. You should restart it
.
I think my perspective is different because my reason for moving here was different from many I have met here. When I arrived in Stockholm in January I was only supposed to be here for 6 months so wanted to get as much out of it as possible. The secondment gave me an opportunity to explore a new country and culture for six months before going back to UK.
However when I was promoted and then building a life here for awhile it took a different complexion as work was my new challenge and not fitting in. But I still wanted to do and see Nordic things.
I guess for some people who move here solely because of their partners then I can understand why they just hit the Irish bar, they are only here for their other half and not because of an attraction to Sweden.